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Author Topic: powered sub to mixer connection  (Read 17932 times)
cecilb
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« on: July 29, 2014, 11:35:48 am »

I know this guy(ahem) who always asks dumb questions

He wants to know where on mixer do you connect powered sub?

My "friend" also has connections wrong in photo.....I set him straight


* mixer.jpg (149.34 KB, 640x480 - viewed 356 times.)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 01:55:56 pm by cecilb » Logged

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Sparge
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 05:55:34 pm »

cecilb,

We're going to need some more information.  Ask your "friend" to describe his complete audio set up including brand and model of all "his" gear and how it's connected now.  Wink

-Sparge-
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cecilb
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 06:12:36 pm »

cecilb,

We're going to need some more information.  Ask your "friend" to describe his complete audio set up including brand and model of all "his" gear and how it's connected now.  Wink

-Sparge-

I finally got hold of him

He has old JBL powered 10 eons and an alesis 8 mixer along with a yamaha yst-sw010 45 watt powered sub that he uses......oh heck, that I use with my receiver and passive speakers. 

Setting up at a friends party and and showing music videos, decent crowd so I thought I'd dust off eons for a little umph, would like a little bass in there. Will these odd fellows work together? Not much of a sub, but its fine for backyard stuff
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Sparge
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 11:54:50 pm »

The issue with connecting a subwoofer to your gear is that a crossover is needed.  Unfortunately, it looks like none of your gear has one built in.

The owner's manual for the Yamaha subwoofer indicates it should be connected to the line-level "subwoofer" output of your receiver.  That type of output from a receiver would already be crossed over (low pass or LFE only).  There's nothing in the manual that would lead me to believe the Yamaha has a built-in crossover on its input.  It would probably be very unhappy (and sound crappy) if it's fed a full range signal from your mixer.

The Alesis mixer doesn't have a subwoofer crossover (not surprising as most mixers don't).

Finally, the EONs don't have a crossover (low-pass) output either.

However, I think we can get you there with a minimal investment in cables and an inline crossover.  This scheme would use the AUX B SEND (post fader) to sum the left and right channels.  That summed signal would be sent from the AUX B SEND through an inline crossover that would filter out everything above 200Hz (the frequency response of the Yamaha) and ultimately go into the INPUT of the powered Yamaha subwoofer.

You would need one of each of these three things:

  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-jack-to-1-4-mono-plug-adapter--090-285   (this plugs into the AUX B SEND on your mixer)

  http://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-200-hz-low-pass-rca--266-258   (this plugs into the INPUT of your subwoofer)

  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-patch-cable-50-ft-gold-plated--240-046  (this cable connects the above two things together)   

I kept everything from the same supplier for ease of ordering.  It comes to about $35 plus shipping with the inline crossover being the bulk of the cost.  The crossovers are only sold in pairs, unfortunately.  You only need one.  So, you'll have a spare!  Roll Eyes  You can also go with a shorter cable if you don't want/need 50-feet.  By the way, that's a stereo cable (red/white) but you'll only need to use one side of it (red or white).

Let me know if you have any questions!

-Sparge-
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cecilb
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 09:06:16 am »

The issue with connecting a subwoofer to your gear is that a crossover is needed.  Unfortunately, it looks like none of your gear has one built in.

The owner's manual for the Yamaha subwoofer indicates it should be connected to the line-level "subwoofer" output of your receiver.  That type of output from a receiver would already be crossed over (low pass or LFE only).  There's nothing in the manual that would lead me to believe the Yamaha has a built-in crossover on its input.  It would probably be very unhappy (and sound crappy) if it's fed a full range signal from your mixer.

The Alesis mixer doesn't have a subwoofer crossover (not surprising as most mixers don't).

Finally, the EONs don't have a crossover (low-pass) output either.

However, I think we can get you there with a minimal investment in cables and an inline crossover.  This scheme would use the AUX B SEND (post fader) to sum the left and right channels.  That summed signal would be sent from the AUX B SEND through an inline crossover that would filter out everything above 200Hz (the frequency response of the Yamaha) and ultimately go into the INPUT of the powered Yamaha subwoofer.

You would need one of each of these three things:

  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-jack-to-1-4-mono-plug-adapter--090-285   (this plugs into the AUX B SEND on your mixer)

  http://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-200-hz-low-pass-rca--266-258   (this plugs into the INPUT of your subwoofer)

  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-patch-cable-50-ft-gold-plated--240-046  (this cable connects the above two things together)   

I kept everything from the same supplier for ease of ordering.  It comes to about $35 plus shipping with the inline crossover being the bulk of the cost.  The crossovers are only sold in pairs, unfortunately.  You only need one.  So, you'll have a spare!  Roll Eyes  You can also go with a shorter cable if you don't want/need 50-feet.  By the way, that's a stereo cable (red/white) but you'll only need to use one side of it (red or white).

Let me know if you have any questions!

-Sparge-




Sparge

As always you're the best!  I actually was reading about a crossover piece initially and wasn't sure if there was another avenue to that I could use. You confirmed it and looks like the least expensive crossover connector out there. If I'm understanding this correctly the crossover over filters the low end while not denigrating high end signals going to eons.

Little aside, like a patient fisherman the other day when I first posted my question, I kept checking my 'line' to see if I had a nibble from you!

Ordering now!

Thanks again!

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Sparge
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 12:04:29 pm »

If I'm understanding this correctly the crossover over filters the low end while not denigrating high end signals going to eons.

That's essentially correct, but...

In this arrangement the crossover is being used strictly as a low-pass filter.  That is to say, it passes frequencies below 200Hz to the subwoofer and filters out frequencies above 200Hz so they do not reach the subwoofer.  Because the crossover is inline exclusively with the subwoofer it will have no effect on the signal going to the EONs.  The full range signal, including all of the low end, is still going to the EONs.  So, you're getting full benefit from the EONs with a little extra low-end from the powered subwoofer.  I'd say that's the most desirable configuration for your existing equipment.

If you had a larger, more powerful subwoofer then I'd recommend a full crossover design where the low-end is excluded from the EONs.  That would allow them to work more efficiently on the upper frequencies while the subwoofer handled the low end exclusively.  That's perhaps an upgrade for when you buy a bigger sub down the road!  Wink

By the way, on the mixer you should use the MAIN MIX OUT connectors for the EONs (not the 2-TRACK OUT as shown in your photo).  The AUX B SEND will be used to connect your subwoofer as described above.  You can bring your stereo source (laptop, DVD player, etc.) in via the LINE IN 7/8 as shown in your photo.  You'll be able to control the level of the subwoofer from the mixer using the AUX B knob on the channel strip.

Speaking of level adjustments...

On the mixer start with the MAIN MIX knob all the way down (counter clockwise).  All controls on the LINE 7/8 channel strip should be at the 12 o-clock (center) position.

On the EONs start with their level controls about 3/4 of the way up.  If wired as described above the MAIN MIX knob on the mixer will be your master volume control.

On the Yamaha subwoofer start with its volume control all the way down.

Start playing your source material.  You should not hear anything at this point since the mixer's MAIN MIX knob and the Yamaha's volume are all the way down.

Next turn up the MAIN MIX knob until you get to a typical listening volume on the EONs.  You shouldn't need to take it much past center (12 o'clock).  The subwoofer should still be quiet at this point.

Then turn up the subwoofer's volume control until it blends in with the sound of the EONs.  You want it to add bass but not really be overly noticeable individually.

At this point you should be able to use the MAIN MIX knob as a master volume to control the overall level of sound (including the subwoofer).  The AUX B knob on the LINE 7/8 channel strip can be used to balance the level of the sub (tweak up or down) as needed.

If you aren't getting the overall sound levels you think you should then let me know.  I've purposely held back some power in reserve to prevent distortion during loud passages.  We can tweak the levels if needed.

By the way, it would be helpful if you could send pics after you have everything connected so I can verify your configuration.

-Sparge-
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 12:15:51 pm by Sparge » Logged
cecilb
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 03:43:23 pm »

Sparge,

Excellent tutorial, crossovers etc enroute,
Should do test tomorrow.

I'm sure I'll be on lookout for a beefier sub, and yahama is actually not mine.
I rarely use this setup but good to have just in case

In original photo post I chastised 'friend'
For not having eons in main mix out so at least I had that right

Received camp chef OS144 today

Outstanding!!!!


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cecilb
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 02:34:56 pm »

Sparge,

Received crossover attenuator from Parts and hooked up to mixer with no success. photos are my connections. Crossover in Aux B.


edit:

Photo of crossover conncection wrong, as you mentioned, crossover goes into INPUT on Sub, I believe I tried that and still no luck, will retry again as possibly missed something.

Addendum:

Connections and sub working through one of main mixer jacks but not through aux B jack. Short?


Never, never give up

   ....Jim Valvano.....



* mixer.jpg (140.14 KB, 640x480 - viewed 346 times.)

* crossover.jpg (196.27 KB, 640x480 - viewed 359 times.)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 10:11:24 am by cecilb » Logged

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Sparge
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 01:18:37 pm »

Yeah, some of the connections are still out of place on the mixer.

Looking at the pic of the mixer that you just posted... I'll assume those two black cables plugged into the MAIN MIX OUT go to the EONs.  If so, that's good.  I'll also assume the red/white cables plugged into the 2-TRACK IN are from your laptop/player.  If so, that's wrong.  You do not want to use the 2-TRACK IN on the mixer.  Your laptop/player should plug into the LINE IN 7/8 connections.  You will need two of those RCA-to-1/4" adapters like shown in that second pic with the crossover.

Here's where the above was previously described...

By the way, on the mixer you should use the MAIN MIX OUT connectors for the EONs (not the 2-TRACK OUT as shown in your photo).  The AUX B SEND will be used to connect your subwoofer as described above.  You can bring your stereo source (laptop, DVD player, etc.) in via the LINE IN 7/8 as shown in your photo.  You'll be able to control the level of the subwoofer from the mixer using the AUX B knob on the channel strip.

Don't forget to initially set and then adjust the level controls on all the devices as described.  I can see in the pic of the mixer that the Line 7/8 knobs are not centered as prescribed.

Let me know how it goes!

-Sparge-
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cecilb
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 02:42:42 pm »

Yeah, some of the connections are still out of place on the mixer.

Looking at the pic of the mixer that you just posted... I'll assume those two black cables plugged into the MAIN MIX OUT go to the EONs.  If so, that's good.  I'll also assume the red/white cables plugged into the 2-TRACK IN are from your laptop/player.  If so, that's wrong.  You do not want to use the 2-TRACK IN on the mixer.  Your laptop/player should plug into the LINE IN 7/8 connections.  You will need two of those RCA-to-1/4" adapters like shown in that second pic with the crossover.

Here's where the above was previously described...

By the way, on the mixer you should use the MAIN MIX OUT connectors for the EONs (not the 2-TRACK OUT as shown in your photo).  The AUX B SEND will be used to connect your subwoofer as described above.  You can bring your stereo source (laptop, DVD player, etc.) in via the LINE IN 7/8 as shown in your photo.  You'll be able to control the level of the subwoofer from the mixer using the AUX B knob on the channel strip.

Don't forget to initially set and then adjust the level controls on all the devices as described.  I can see in the pic of the mixer that the Line 7/8 knobs are not centered as prescribed.

Let me know how it goes!

-Sparge-



All good!  It helps to read your full posts!

Sparge, you're the best, thanks!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/daSG5fwdA7o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/daSG5fwdA7o</a>
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 04:32:20 pm »

All good!  It helps to read your full posts!

Sparge, you're the best, thanks!

Did you get the subwoofer working?  How did it sound?

-Sparge-
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cecilb
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 12:56:58 am »

All good!  It helps to read your full posts!

Sparge, you're the best, thanks!

Did you get the subwoofer working?  How did it sound?

-Sparge-


Sounds great! Much better than I expected, plus using correct jacks (7/8) as you pointed out for music in enables control on all speakers

I've probably used the eons once or twice over the last five years so thanks for steering me straight on the whole hookup.

I'll report back how tomorrow night goes.


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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 05:47:34 pm »

Sounds great! Much better than I expected, plus using correct jacks (7/8) as you pointed out for music in enables control on all speakers

I've probably used the eons once or twice over the last five years so thanks for steering me straight on the whole hookup.

I'll report back how tomorrow night goes.

Glad to help!

-Sparge-
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