Backyard Theater Forum

Backyard Theater discussions => Screen specific => Topic started by: victor-eyd on May 27, 2006, 02:15:41 am



Title: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on May 27, 2006, 02:15:41 am
I was bored and everyone was asleep so I tried this out. This was bought at Home Depot for about $20 bucks. Although the package says "clear", in actuality it is rather opaque, which makes it a candidate for rear projection. Ideally, you'd want to have it more opaque since at 6 mil, you will see the bulb itself, but more on this later...

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00023.jpg)

The garage opening measures 16 ft x 8ft high, so its rather large for an opening (blame it on my architect). Most garage openings are about a foot lower. The projector is my trusty $10.00 NEC. DVD player is a Sungale $10.00 portable, which I now suspect cannot play multiple titles like my demo dvds.

inside garage (yes- I tried Star Wars, it looked okay actually)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00431.jpg)

The throw was about 17ft from lens to screen. The screen itself was suspended via electrical tape and held down by planks and bricks (it was a little breezy outside). Overall the screen size measured up to be about 135" 4x3 or 124" 16x9. Its smaller than I would like but if you were using a single car garage opening I would probably be perfect. You could also mask around the image for a more finished look.

This is what I found:
Overall, the image was rather pleasing, if a bit distracting since the screen was too thin to hide the bulb, see image below
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00430.jpg)

In actuality, you end up forgetting about the bulb image and more or less concentrate on the movie itself.

However, since I had full light control (garage-no lights on), I did not have to worry about exterior lights to illuminate the viewing area since it would not affect the image.

and another, although blurry
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00429.jpg)

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: hiredpower on May 27, 2006, 06:28:37 am
This just goes to show that almost anything will work and doesn't have to be expensive.

Chalk another one up for Victor!

My first screen was two bed sheets sewn together back to back. The image was quite impressive, I might add.



Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: cheftom on May 27, 2006, 08:16:18 am
What would happen to the image if you doubled up the plastic, making it 12 ml?

it looks decent but the bulb would be distracting.


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: rfisk on May 27, 2006, 10:03:46 am
Cool!

I've see a couple setups like this using thicker plastic or visqueen with good success.   Ceiling mount the projector or set it down on the floor?  And, at the risk of sounding like a Trapeze salesman, the stuff works great for rear projection too and would be easy to snap/hook to the door opening.

Could be increased licensing/public showing problems for some folks, though.  Just a mention of that.

Nice work Victor!  (Who is probably sleeping-in this morning...)

Randy


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on May 27, 2006, 10:20:27 am
The projector was simply propped on a table I dragged inside the garage.

I'm haven't tried yet how to add a 2nd 6mil sheet. Perhaps a small one in front of the pj might be enough. In any case, it's a very affordable possibility for those who don't have a good sized backyard (getting more common with these new homes in the Bay Area) but have a regular driveway.

All that legal mumbo jumbo could be a problem, I agree, but ya got's ta do what ya got's ta do! ;D

Thanks for having this really cool forum and thanks everyone for the compliments

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: Pass_The_Off on May 27, 2006, 08:35:44 pm
Now that's a neat Ideal


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: BrainGrenade on June 05, 2006, 04:55:21 am
I'm not sure how well of a keystone feature your projector has but try using that to your advantage. mount it off to the side or as previously mentioned on the ceiling. That would get the bulb out of the way and use the keystone to straighten out the image. Not sure if that would work or not as I'm still new to the whole projector game. I don't even own one... YET!


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on July 07, 2006, 01:17:49 am
Success!

I tried the setup again and this time, I taped a small section of the plastic over the screen, effectively making a double thickness

Voila! The bulb glare has greatly reduced down to a diffuse haze and the image is definitely more watchable than before. Its not as bright, perhaps 10% down, but still way more than watchable. Even a low lumen crt or diy should have no problem with this setup.

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00106.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00105.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00107.jpg)

So in short, if you are to attempt this setup, fold over the plastic to make double the thickness, and you will have a workable rear projection system for around $20.00

I already finished my outdoor theater so this concept is primarily for those who will use their driveway for viewing, whether its movies or scary clips for halloween ;D

Have fun!

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: redhawk on July 12, 2006, 02:34:20 pm
I'm new here, but I had the same idea of creating a giant rear projection system on the cheap out of my garage.  We have one of those small backyards, so the garage is the best bet.  If I can make it a rear-project, even better.  But of course I have some questions since I currently do not own a projector.  I'd buy (or make one) if this idea is feasable.

One unanswered question is on whether or not putting the projector on the floor, or off to one side and keystoning would eliminate the bright spot.  Has anyone tried that?

Also, approximatly what sort of power (lumens) would be necessary to rear-project an image that is about 8-10' in width that is watchable with some low level street lamp light noise?

Thanks.



Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on July 12, 2006, 02:40:32 pm
Keystoning would probably help. Lens shift even more so but since my pj had neither, table mounting is the only option.

As to lumen power, the lower the better. I high lumen business pj will probably over come the haze and you're back to a hotspot on the screen. I'd recommend either crt or diy or an older pj for this project.

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: redhawk on July 12, 2006, 03:48:33 pm
Wow, quick response.

So lower lumens would be better.... hmmmm.  Since I do not have a projector yet, that helps a lot. 

I've been thinking of building my own projector based on some parts I have laying around if I can not find one on craigslist that I can repair on the cheap.  I live in Nor Cal also, but near Sacramento.  Building my own would allow me to automatically build in a reversed screen and keystone setup.  I have an LCD panel from an 7" semi-broken portable DVD player, though I may find the resolution lacking.  All I need is a cheap projection lens, some fresnels, a light source and a little build time.  Old slide projector or overhead might be perfect to salvage.

Or who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap projector in the meantime. 

Thanks for confirming the screen concept though, I think I'll run with that for now.


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: Mike the Movie Guy on October 23, 2006, 03:24:47 pm
 I'm setting up a rear projection haunt in my front yard this Hallowe'en. I'm using a translucent shower curtain liner I picked up at Wal-Mart for $2.50 as my screen. It looks much better than you might guess, plus, it'll distract the trick-or-treaters enough for me to sneak up on 'em!  :o


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: mine2be on October 31, 2006, 03:22:17 pm
There is an Infocus projector at this site but it is mixed in with some computers.

http://www.govdeals.com/eas/itmDisplay.cfm?itemID=506&acctID=551

This rear projection display project is a great idea.  I'm going to give it a shot for our youth room at church.


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: BobH on December 03, 2006, 08:24:41 am
Just a quick thought. I just got my pj a couple of days ago and hung up a white sheet. Got every thing going and realized that the image on the backside was just as good as the front.  Great for movie's, but not so great for sports where there are scores and other graphics.


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on April 28, 2007, 05:04:38 pm
So I tried a new setup last night. Well sorta new. I utilized my Walmart rp screen and my standard fp cardboard screen for comparison purposes and here's what I found.

For starters, any new pj business or ht, will overpower the walmart rp screen. Even with my crappy 3m  8640 I was still hotspotting and I had to turn down contrast and brightness severely just to get anywhere near an acceptable image. See pix below to show you what I mean. So for my opinion, those using 3 gun crt projectors or lumenlab/diy projectors which are inherently lower on the lumen ratings will pair up nicely with the walmart frosted screen. Also the walmart screen is prone to wrinkling, so have a hot air gun or blowdryer with you to remove most of the wrinkles.

As to the front projection, if anyone's desire really. You've probably heard a lot of people turn down brightness  because their pj somewhat overpower the image and after trying out almost 1/2 dozen projectors a lower lumen projector will be just as effective as a newer high power powered one, unless you have a lot of ambient light in the area, and by that I mean porch lights, campfire lights or you're relatively near street lights.

anyways, here are some pictures to show you what I mean...

Movie is either Spiderman 2.1 or Ironman. Videogame is Gamecube's Super Monkeyball. Front projection is 165" 16:9 diagonal and Rear projection is 100" 4:3.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00088.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00090.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00092.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00094.jpg)

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: Danoplex II on April 28, 2007, 06:49:06 pm
BobH,

You know most projectors have the ability to do a reverse image so if you are doing rear projection the graphics and text are not backwards....right?

Dano


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 20, 2007, 01:11:48 am
Update: I folded over the 6mil to become a 12mil sheet in trying to lessen the hotspot. Yes, the hotspot is lessened, enough so that the image is watchable, but is still there.

I use my semi-diy projector, the old Infocus with the "built-in" dvd player, which is a lower lumen projector but still plenty bright for outdoor use. Because of the way it was constructed, I cannot reverse the image so all text will be backwards.

Nonetheless, here are the results:

The sheet folded over and stapled together
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00103.jpg)

Closeup
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00104.jpg)

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 20, 2007, 01:15:03 am
Finally some images:

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00110.jpg)
with flash

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00109.jpg)
without


The hotspot is visible, but again less annoying than before
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00118.jpg)

The camera overcompensates for the image. its actually more of a diffuse circle than a washout as you see
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00114.jpg)

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 20, 2007, 01:17:56 am
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00115.jpg)
Again, its noticeble...

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00112.jpg)
But depending where you sit, especially to the sides, it might not be so distracting

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00119.jpg)
[You'd think the wrinkles would be annoying

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/backyard%20theater/is_00120.jpg)
But its not

Ulitmately, I can't really recommend this for outdoor theater use, other than a halloween setup where its more for effect rather than watching a show. At least you won't break the bank should you decide to setup one for the holidays...

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 28, 2008, 11:53:16 pm
Update 2: As recommended by bholio and others, I tried using the white fabric as opposed to the frosted on this test. The results were simple: the white works everywhere the frosted does not. It can easily do rear projection and will not hotspot. Here are some images of its proof of concept

First, which brand to get. Hint0 it cosst only 1.97 per 70x72 panel. all you need is some clear 2" tape and you're all set!

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/100_5685.jpg)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/100_5687.jpg)

Front:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/front.jpg)

Rear:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/back.jpg)

Front:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/indyfront.jpg)

Rear:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/indyback.jpg)

Front
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/Halloween/racing.jpg)

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: cinepro on August 29, 2008, 05:24:12 pm
Hi Victor

I would suggest you play with a mirror, it might shorten the distance to the screen, reduce the hotspot and place the text the right way around.


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 29, 2008, 06:28:40 pm
Using a mirror will shorten the throw but I doubt it will reduce the hotspot. Using the white instead of the frosted is an easier, quicker, and costs just as much (perhapds less) than any other method I've seen or experimented with.

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: yappypappy on September 02, 2008, 01:01:02 am
Victor ,, I just did an outdoor test on my fabric that I had for a screen indoors , it is shiny fabric , and when I went behind to see how it looked ,there was no difference in projection from the front to back . This was fabric that is white with a bit of shine to it and see through a bit. I have been trying to get some more as the screen was way to small outside and I need to double it .My friend said you better get the wrinkles out by ironing it and I said ,don't worry you wont see them at night and have you seen a drive in screen and what it looks like during the day.. I am thinking of doing a curtain type that can be hooked when I want so neighbours don't freak about huge screen out back, I also attached it to trampoline ,using poles standing up from it ,should of taken pics ,but will start this weekend coming up ..


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on September 02, 2008, 11:33:35 am
looking forward to the pics yappy. Is it blackout cloth that you're using for the screen (fabric on one side/rubbery on the other)?

Victor


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: yappypappy on September 02, 2008, 04:48:52 pm
No,, it  is not blackout cloth ,just white fabric for around 2 a metre.I have used blackout cloth but I will go with this stuff for outside as it is cheap and just as good,and if I have to wash it no problem. I hope to have it going by weekend ,I will  be just doing temp set up and take down . I will post in new thread on mine own  as not to hijack this one on you.. p.s. I am selling my diy pj stuff on kijjijji locally now..maybe get back into later again.did my second lcd in ,


Title: Re: My overnight Rear Projection Test
Post by: victor-eyd on August 20, 2014, 12:30:56 am
Hello, its been awhile  ;D

Tonight I tested what I thought was good material for rear (or front) projection- plastic table cloths. Now you can buy this at any party store or walmart/target/etc. and maybe even in the $0.99 stores. As such, I got these at walmart: $0.97 for the black, and $1.47 for the white 3pack (they ran out of white singles). They measure 54x108, so if you will probably need to trim but they are so cheap if you mess up it'll be only a dollar to resume. I usd my garage for testing with two projectors: An Eiki LC-X990 which I got at a surplus store (with working bulb) for $35. It has a lumen strength of 2200 lumens but considering the age of the projector I can't imagine anymore than half by this point. The other is a nearly new Optoma PK201, which has only 20 lumens. I shelled out $100 for this baby used (I almost bought its newer cousin for only $40, but didn't). The resolution of the Eiki is XGA, 1024x768. The optoma is 858x480, which is native DVD quality.

The connections are clips burned onto a thumb drive and played via a Viewsonic media player, which is connected to the Eiki via component. The  files were saved onto Optoma's internal hard drive, so external media player was needed.

I used a clip from This is Halloween song from Nightmare Before Xmas, Madame leota from Disney, and Hallowindow 3.

The sheets were stapled from the top and placed side by side. I noticed that they are very light, much lighter than the shower curtains so in moderate wind they could easily tear unless you secure them very well. i also notice that the white will hotspot, perhaps not as bad as the frosted curtain liner.

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2178_zps9600fff7.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2179_zps8202e8ea.jpg)

From the inside of the garage
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2180_zps0eff435c.jpg)

From the outside
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2181_zpscb1278b1.jpg)

With the Eiki- notice the hotspot glow
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2185_zpsf8facbf3.jpg)

Note that the black cloth handled the 1000lumen or so image, so clearly it can work for people who want to project but don't want guests to see a projection screen.

More hallowindow
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2187_zps92725149.jpg)

This is Halloween
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2188_zps70eacdcb.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2190_zps7624c242.jpg)

You can see that the black, not surprisingly, eats up a lot of colors (and pop of the image) so if you want to project on black it has to be white or at least very bright projections

Madame Leota
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2193_zpsd0dacd86.jpg)

Here is the Optoma, resting on top of the Eiki
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2196_zps337e3e78.jpg)

As you can see its very small, just slightly larger than an iphone
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2197_zps34523c82.jpg)

From the same distance, I was able to get a similarly sized image, around 88x48 from 16t away. But I past the max I could focus so the image was a little blurry. Pushing the throw down to 11ft, I could get a 32x58 sized image and good sharpness.

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2201_zpsc640b847.jpg)

Surprisingly, the image is quite good at this size, the the colors play pretty well on the black as well as the white

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2202_zps28645aef.jpg)

also notice hotspotting has been reduced.

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2205_zps23b2385e.jpg)

Here is a good representation of a tiny 20 lumen projector ability to project a good image in spite of it low lumen rating. For people with low lumen projectors you will have a visible image to project. But resolution is also important so images coming from other projectors with lower resolution might have blockier images to contend with at this size.

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2210_zps34b6fd98.jpg)

(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/victor-eyd/2014%20rear%20projection%20test/DSCN2208_zpsf556cf33.jpg)

Hope all this helps for projection options this Halloween

Victor