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Backyard Theater - Outdoor Movies

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Author Topic: HDMI Audio Extraction  (Read 6446 times)
bdwalker1
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« on: July 09, 2013, 09:37:05 am »

I've noticed quite a few video devices nowadays are coming out with HDMI output only.  This can make it hard for those of us who aren't running an HDMI audio receiver between our source and projector.  I just came across this box which looks like it could be very handing for those with HDMI source and HDMI projector but have an older receiver or are running a mixer/PA system.  It offers HDMI passthrough with audio extraction to Optical/SPDIF or L/R analog.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Premium-Audio-Extractor-Converter/dp/B00AHS8LD8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373379713&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+to+toslink
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11visions
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 09:55:33 am »

I think removing the analog audio outputs for consumer disc players has been mandated/required for new models. The device you posted will certainly resolve this problem, but bear in mind you must have the player decode and downmix the HDMI audio to 2ch LPCM in order for this device to work.

I happen to use a device that performs a similar function:
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html
Expensive, but gives me a rackmounted switch along with 7.1 RCA audio. Nice.
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Phillip Hullquist
I toured the U.S. showing outdoor movies in 2010 on Carl's 16x9 screen.
Now I own eight commercial rental screens ranging from 9x5 to 30x17!
bdwalker1
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 11:15:34 am »

bear in mind you must have the player decode and downmix the HDMI audio to 2ch LPCM in order for this device to work.

You only have to down mix to two channels if you are using the RCA outputs. If you use the optical output you can use either the passthru or 5.1ch positions on the EDID selector switch to support full audio or 5.1ch respectively. At least that's my understanding without hands-on experience or a detailed manual to reference.

At $40 I think this box could help some folks that need to get the HDMI audio out without needing all 5.1 or 7.1 distinct analog channels.
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wedgehead98
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 07:17:33 pm »

I think removing the analog audio outputs for consumer disc players has been mandated/required for new models. The device you posted will certainly resolve this problem, but bear in mind you must have the player decode and downmix the HDMI audio to 2ch LPCM in order for this device to work.

I happen to use a device that performs a similar function:
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html
Expensive, but gives me a rackmounted switch along with 7.1 RCA audio. Nice.

Hello there - I'm looking to replace the Denon AVR we use as the surround decoder with something much, much lighter...would the Octava work with the Behringer EP4000 amps we are using to drive the Peavey 3.1 setup?

Inputs:
1.   BluRay DVD player with HDMI and Optical (Audio only)
2.   Ipod (for music before the show)

Surround Sound Decoder Denon AVR  (very heavy!)
a.   Optical input used from DVD
b.     "CD" RCA inputs used from iPod
c.   RCA pre amp outputs connected to amplifiers (below)
d.   Note that this allows me to adjust volume with the Denon volume dial this is nice to have but not mandatory.

Amplifiers Behringer EP4000
1.   Right and Left channels run through one
2.   Center and Subwoofer run through the other

Speakers 3 Peavey 2-way loudspeakers and one Peavey subwoofer.


The question is can I replace the Denon AVR with the HDMXA71?

Will the analog outputs from the HDMX work with the Behringer inputs?

Sincerely appreciate your help - we're trying to lighten the audio cabinet and that Denon weighs a ton!
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11visions
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 03:54:51 am »

In the four years since I posted this, I've since switched to a completely different system. My rack now has:

Oppo 103 Blu-ray (used to decode audio to 5.1 analog outputs)
ART MX624 Zone Mixer (sub and center channel go to zone 2 for separate volume control)

This gives completely independent volume control of all 3.1 channels and takes up only 3 rack spaces.

The Octava HDMXA71 I was using before I sold because I didn't like it's functionally as a switcher and now that I have analog outputs directly via the Blu-ray player it is no longer necessary. For your usage though, it would probably work fine as long as your Blu-ray player supports sending LPCM surround output via HDMI or coaxial. Some Blu-ray players only output downmixed stereo output even over digital connections so double-check to be sure.

Honestly though, I'd go with an Oppo (or another player with 5.1 analog) and line mixer. They work really well together.
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Phillip Hullquist
I toured the U.S. showing outdoor movies in 2010 on Carl's 16x9 screen.
Now I own eight commercial rental screens ranging from 9x5 to 30x17!
wedgehead98
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 11:33:48 am »

In the four years since I posted this, I've since switched to a completely different system. My rack now has:

Oppo 103 Blu-ray (used to decode audio to 5.1 analog outputs)
ART MX624 Zone Mixer (sub and center channel go to zone 2 for separate volume control)

This gives completely independent volume control of all 3.1 channels and takes up only 3 rack spaces.

The Octava HDMXA71 I was using before I sold because I didn't like it's functionally as a switcher and now that I have analog outputs directly via the Blu-ray player it is no longer necessary. For your usage though, it would probably work fine as long as your Blu-ray player supports sending LPCM surround output via HDMI or coaxial. Some Blu-ray players only output downmixed stereo output even over digital connections so double-check to be sure.

Honestly though, I'd go with an Oppo (or another player with 5.1 analog) and line mixer. They work really well together.


Interesting... I like the idea - but how do you keep LFE to the subwoofer only, or, conversely, not send center channel higher frequencies to the sub?

Would a 6-in/6-out device like the Rane SM 26S 6-Ch Mixer / Splitter - help with this?

I find the center channel is useful to center the conversation - we usually end up running the Denon in "stereo" mode to improve the volume on the L/R channels.

Certainly appreciate your input!

John
john.hass@yahoo.com
San Diego, CA
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 12:00:39 pm by wedgehead98 » Logged
11visions
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 04:40:23 pm »

Right now the LFE/center are effectively panned left and right so they even though they are controlled with the same volume knob, the outputs are not mixed. I actually just bought a Tascam LM-8ST mixer this last week which will give me separate volume knobs for both sub and center.

The splitter/mixer combos like the Rane unit you mentioned (or the far cheaper MX882 that I use to own) are perfect for splitting up and controlling 5.1 sound, but it of course adds another 1U of rack gear and space is as a premium in my 10U "big" rack. If you only have one input source (such as the Blu-ray player) and have the space, it would be perfect, but you'll still need a line mixer to add other AUX sources to your mix. I'm hoping the Tascam machine will be an effective compromise, but I just bought it and haven't had a chance to test it yet.
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Phillip Hullquist
I toured the U.S. showing outdoor movies in 2010 on Carl's 16x9 screen.
Now I own eight commercial rental screens ranging from 9x5 to 30x17!
11visions
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 06:03:51 pm »

Oppo told me the optical output can be downmixed to stereo on their Blu-ray players while still maintaining the 5.1/7.1 stereo analog outputs. My new plan is to put a optical to analog converter on that output so that I have a downmixed 2.0 signal going to the mains while using Oppo's analog outputs to drive the LFE/center channels.

If you decide to ditch your heavy Denon decoder for an Oppo player, it can greatly simplify your rack while providing the same functionality.
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Phillip Hullquist
I toured the U.S. showing outdoor movies in 2010 on Carl's 16x9 screen.
Now I own eight commercial rental screens ranging from 9x5 to 30x17!
wedgehead98
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 03:38:29 pm »

Oppo told me the optical output can be downmixed to stereo on their Blu-ray players while still maintaining the 5.1/7.1 stereo analog outputs. My new plan is to put a optical to analog converter on that output so that I have a downmixed 2.0 signal going to the mains while using Oppo's analog outputs to drive the LFE/center channels.

If you decide to ditch your heavy Denon decoder for an Oppo player, it can greatly simplify your rack while providing the same functionality.


I keep getting confused - decided to break it down:

Functional Requirements:

1. 3.1 sound from movies - master volume control is very nice to have to easily adjust overall sound, discrete volume control can be accomplished with the amps
2. The ability to play music from an iPod (simple L/R stereo is OK, bass to the subwoofer is a nice to have)
3. The ability to hook up a microphone is a nice to have, not a need to have.
4. Use the existing 20U cabinet, speakers, and projector (projector sits on top of the audio cabinet during movies)
5. Ok with buying new DVD/Blu-ray with analog 7.1 sound outputs
6. Ok with buying Mixer or Splitter (or both?)
7. Will be buying new iNuke NU6000's because that will save ~45lbs in the rack.

Speakers are Peavey 118 subwoofer (8 ohms) and Peavey PVX12 (also 8 ohms) for L/R/C...

I'm still unclear on the simplest way to have 3.1 sound - mixer, splitter, or both?  Rack space is not an issue...

I appreciate your input!

John
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11visions
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 10:38:40 pm »

The splitter/mixer unit have up to 8 inputs so you're only using 4 of those inputs to carry 3.1 sound. You have two additional stereo inputs available which would fill out the other four channels. I went into this in a little more detail in my other response, but I would suggest you start with just buying a splitter/mixer and then add a line mixer in the future if you decide you want more inputs.

Short answer: A Blu-ray player with built in decoding and a splitter/mixer combo (such as the Rane unit or an MX882) will maintain 3.1 sound control and replace the functionality of your Denon decoder while weighing far less.
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Phillip Hullquist
I toured the U.S. showing outdoor movies in 2010 on Carl's 16x9 screen.
Now I own eight commercial rental screens ranging from 9x5 to 30x17!
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